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作者：Anonymous 在 罕见奇谈 发贴, 来自 http://www.hjclub.org
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 07:32:17 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: Sam Sloan
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
Perhaps I should explain myself better.
If you should happen to be in England and go to places like Birmingham,
Leeds and so on, you will find that the English which they claim that they
are speaking is completely unintelligable.
The English of London by contrast is something we can understand.
Cockney English is certainly far more different from American English than
Uighur is from Turkish.
Sam Sloan
At 10:59 PM 2/27/98 MDT, you wrote:
>Dear Matthias: I have some Uighur friends who would say that Uighur and
>Turkish are quite similar, (possibly 70% the same, and that it is very
>close to spoken Uzbek.) In speaking Turkish with these Uighurs, I don't
>believe that Uighur is as close comparatively to Turkish as English
>spoken in England is to American English. It is NOT 95% the same as
>English spoken in England is to English in America. The
>grammatical structure is essentially the same but different forms are
>used. Uzbeks have told me that Uzbek is about 70% the same as Anatolian
>Turkish. Kirk
>
>UI>In my experience, Uighur is very close to Turkish, closer than the English
>UI>of England is to the English of America.
>
>UI>I recommend that you just study Turkish.
>
>UI>The writing system is another thing altogether. I believe that the Uighurs
>UI>have more than one system. It would probably be too difficult to learn. I
>UI>recommend that you concentrate on the spoken language.
>
>UI>Ismail Sloan
>
>UI>At 08:31 PM 2/26/98 -0500, Habaer Reheman wrote:
>UI>>
>UI>>
>UI>>Hello.
>UI>>
>UI>>Before travelling to Xinjiang I would like to learn a little spoken
Uighur
>UI>>and if possible some Uighur script (a variant of Arabic script?). Any
>UI>>suggestions how or sources (books, tapes, persons, language courses -
>UI>>accessible from Germany)?
>UI>>
>UI>>I was also wondering how close Uighur is to Turkish? Would it make any
>UI>>sense at all to learn some Turkish? Or would it only confuse me?
>UI>>
>UI>>Your tips and hints are most welcome!
>UI>>
>UI>>
>UI>>Matthias
>UI>>
From: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:15:39 -0500 (EST)
Off cause, it would be better if you learn spoken Uighur Turkish instead
of spoken Anatolian Turkish when you travel to Uighur Region. But when
there is no Uighur reference available, spoken Uzbek is the best source.
Uighur and Uzbek dialect are 95% the same. No matter one is educated or
illiterate, there will no any difficulty to talk to an Uighur by using
Uzbek. (As matter of fact, I always wonder why Uighur and Uzbek are even
called a different dialect of Turkish, for me there are exactly the same
Turkish dialects.)
In case you can't find learning material for spoken Uzbek, I think the
book called <> is the second best source. I
'learned' my Turkish by reading the book and by listening the tapes in
less than a month as a native Uighur speaker. I am sure you will
appreciate usefulness of Turkish when you talk to a Uighur. For simple
comparison of Uighur and Turkish, following are a few common sentences in
Uighur and Turkish.
Uighur English Turkish
Yahshimusiz? (How are you?) Iyimisiz ?
Isming'iz nime? (What is your name?) Adiniz ne?
Siz nerdin keldingiz? (Where are you from?) Siz nerden
geldiniz?
Men Amerikadin keldim. (I am from America.) Ben Amerikadan
geldim.
Bu yerde khanqe uzun turisiz? (Hong long you are going to stay here.) Bu
yerde kach uzun kalajaksiniz?
Siz nerde ishleysiz? (Where are you working?) Siz nerde
chalishisiz?
Men mektep okhutkhuchisi. (I work as a school teacher.) Ben okulda
oretmenim.
Men sayahet khilishni bek yahxi korimen. (I like traveling very much.)
Ben sayahet etmekni cok severim.
Siz khanche yashta? (How old are you?) Siz kach yashta?
Men on-tokhuz yash boldum. (I am 19 years old.) Ben on-toghuz yash
oldum.
Saatingiz khanche? (What is the time?) Saatiniz kach?
> > > >
----------
Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:27:57 -0800
> From: Matthias Winkler
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> To: Multiple recipients of Oriental-List
> Subject: Uighur language
>
> Hello.
>
> Before travelling to Xinjiang I would like to learn a little spoken Uighur
> and if possible some Uighur script (a variant of Arabic script?). Any
> suggestions how or sources (books, tapes, persons, language courses -
> accessible from Germany)?
>
> I was also wondering how close Uighur is to Turkish? Would it make any
> sense at all to learn some Turkish? Or would it only confuse me?
>
> Your tips and hints are most welcome!
>
>
> Matthias
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> Please only quote essential parts of the message to which you are replying,
> and especially not this footnote. To unsubscribe, or to change to and from
> daily digest format, write to and do not use your reply
> command. Daily digest format replaces individual messages with a daily
> compilation of all messages for the previous 24 hours.
> __________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:11:50 -0800 (PST)
From: trh
X-Sender: trh@shell1
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
Or could it mean 'kar$ila$tir'?
I have not heard 'c,eli$tir' in Turkey in the sense given below. That does
not mean that it is not used in that sense in a regional dialect.
'c,eli$mek' means 'to contradict'. 'c,elmek' is 'to deceive'. Probably
from the same root as 'c,almak' meaning 'to steal'.
Ahmet Toprak
---
[email protected]
-----
On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, H. M. Hubey wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 [email protected] wrote:
>
> >Cokt tesekurler Ahmet hocam:
> > Benim Turkcem cok iyi diyil, sunin icin benim cumlelerimde hatalilar
> >biraz cok oldi. Ancam ben Turkiye Turcesile Uigur Turkcesini
> >selisturmakni istedim....
>
> This word sounds interesting. Is "selistir" the equivalent of
> Anatolian "chelishtir" or "to compare"? It looks like we have
> three versions
>
> chelish - Anatolian
> kelish- Karachay-Balkar
> selish- Uyghur
>
> Are there any more words displaying the changes /s/, /ch/, and /k/?
>
> I am looking for these.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Mark http://csam.montclair.edu/Faculty/Hubey.html
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> "Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." ---Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, 1929.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:01:30 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: Sam Sloan
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
In my experience, Uighur is very close to Turkish, closer than the English
of England is to the English of America.
I recommend that you just study Turkish.
The writing system is another thing altogether. I believe that the Uighurs
have more than one system. It would probably be too difficult to learn. I
recommend that you concentrate on the spoken language.
Ismail Sloan
At 08:31 PM 2/26/98 -0500, Habaer Reheman wrote:
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:27:57 -0800
>From: Matthias Winkler
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: Multiple recipients of Oriental-List
>Subject: Uighur language
>
>Hello.
>
>Before travelling to Xinjiang I would like to learn a little spoken Uighur
>and if possible some Uighur script (a variant of Arabic script?). Any
>suggestions how or sources (books, tapes, persons, language courses -
>accessible from Germany)?
>
>I was also wondering how close Uighur is to Turkish? Would it make any
>sense at all to learn some Turkish? Or would it only confuse me?
>
>Your tips and hints are most welcome!
>
>
>Matthias
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
>Please only quote essential parts of the message to which you are replying,
>and especially not this footnote. To unsubscribe, or to change to and from
>daily digest format, write to and do not use your reply
>command. Daily digest format replaces individual messages with a daily
>compilation of all messages for the previous 24 hours.
>__________________________________________________________________________
>
From: TudiH
Message-Id:
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:57:02 EST
Dear Matthias,
The Uyghur dialect is significantly different than Turkish. Being an Uyghur
speaker, I found I can understand the written Turkish, but have some
difficulty understanding spoken Turkish. If you are fluent in Turkish, you
can communicate with an educated Uyghur without difficulty, but the common
folks whom you likely to meet most may not be able to guess the meanings of
words which is pronounced in Turkish accent. There is an Uyghur community in
Munich Germany. They established the Eastern Turkistan Information Center,
they have a homepage in German. You can contact the director of the Center,
Abdujelil at [email protected]
He speaks German, he might help you if you want to study some basic spoken
Uyghur.
Best regards,
Turdi
In a message dated 2/26/98 8:37:26 PM, you wrote:
>Hello.
>
>Before travelling to Xinjiang I would like to learn a little spoken Uighur
>and if possible some Uighur script (a variant of Arabic script?). Any
>suggestions how or sources (books, tapes, persons, language courses -
>accessible from Germany)?
>
>I was also wondering how close Uighur is to Turkish? Would it make any
>sense at all to learn some Turkish? Or would it only confuse me?
>
>Your tips and hints are most welcome!
>
>
>Matthias
>
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 05:25:01 -0800
From: trh trh
Organization: trh
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
I was just about to suggest a comparative table of Uygur and Istanbul
(*not*
Anatolian, Anatolian is different, I'll give some examples below)
Turkish
dialects with English translations.
It looks like this could be the start of it.
There are some corrections to ne made, though. Please see below.
Ahmet Toprak
------------------------------
Director, Turkish Radio Hour
San Francisco Bay Area, USA
[email protected]
------------------------------
Just a quick summary of differences between the Anatolian and Istanbul
Turkish before I comment on the original text below:
Some words with "k"s are pronounced with "g"s:
kaz/gaz (goose)
kec,i/gec,i (goat)
Ankara/Angara (the Turkish capital)
Some words starting with "t"s are pronounced with "d"s.
Present tense is different:
geliyorum geliyom
geliyorsun geliyon
geliyor geliyo
geliyoruz geliyoh
geliyorsunuz geliyonuz
geliyorlar geliyolar
A lot of words are pronounced differently:
git / get (go)
Different uses of words:
"varmak" is used like "gitmek" (to go).
[email protected] wrote:
> Uighur English Turkish
> Yahshimusiz? (How are you?) Iyimisiz ?
Iyimisiniz is usually written as "Iyi misiniz?"
> Isming'iz nime? (What is your name?) Adiniz ne?
"Isminiz ne?" is also acceptible. I some parts of Anatolia such as
Kayseri,
Sivas, Nevsehir this would be "adiniz ni?"
> Siz nerdin keldingiz? (Where are you from?) Siz nerden
> geldiniz?
This would be "where did you come from?". For this "siz nerelisiniz?"
would be
better...
> Men Amerikadin keldim. (I am from America.) Ben Amerikadan
> geldim.
"Ben Amerikaliyim" would be better.
> Bu yerde khanqe uzun turisiz? (Hong long you are going to stay here.) Bu
> yerde kach uzun kalajaksiniz?
"Burada ne kadar kalacaksiniz?" is the correct phrase.
"kalacak" is pronunced as "kalajak".
> Siz nerde ishleysiz? (Where are you working?) Siz nerde
> chalishisiz?
"siz nerede c,alI$iyorsunuz?". "c,alI$iyorsunuz" is pronounced as
"chalyshyyorsunuz".
"c," is actually a "c" with a cedilla, and "$" is actually an "s" with a
cedilla,
representing ch and sh sounds respectively.
In Anatolian Turkish this would be "siz nirde c,alI$iyorsunuz?".
> Men mektep okhutkhuchisi. (I work as a school teacher.) Ben okulda
> oretmenim.
> Men sayahet khilishni bek yahxi korimen. (I like traveling very much.)
> Ben sayahet etmekni cok severim.
Should be "ben seyahat etmeyi c,ok severim".
> Siz khanche yashta? (How old are you?) Siz kach yashta?
Should be "siz kac, ya$indasInIz?". "kac," is of course "kach".
> Men on-tokhuz yash boldum. (I am 19 years old.) Ben on-toghuz yash
> oldum.
"Ben ondokuz ya$IndayIm".
> Saatingiz khanche? (What is the time?) Saatiniz kach?
From: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:33:50 -0500 (EST)
Cokt tesekurler Ahmet hocam:
Benim Turkcem cok iyi diyil, sunin icin benim cumlelerimde hatalilar
biraz cok oldi. Ancam ben Turkiye Turcesile Uigur Turkcesini
selisturmakni istedim....
I agree with you, it will be very interesting if we start to create
a comparative table of Turkiey Turkish and Uighur Turkish. If you can
send me a a few Turkish sentences by e-mail, I would be glad to
translate them to Uighur. It should be a good learning experience for me
also.
By the way, I found your example of 'varmak' is very close to 'barmak' in
Uyghur. Both means 'gitmek' (to go).
Iyi geceler,
> I was just about to suggest a comparative table of Uygur and Istanbul
> (*not*
> Anatolian, Anatolian is different, I'll give some examples below)
> Turkish
> dialects with English translations.
>
> It looks like this could be the start of it.
>
> There are some corrections to ne made, though. Please see below.
>
>
> Ahmet Toprak
> ------------------------------
> Director, Turkish Radio Hour
> San Francisco Bay Area, USA
> [email protected]
> ------------------------------
>
> Just a quick summary of differences between the Anatolian and Istanbul
> Turkish before I comment on the original text below:
>
> Some words with "k"s are pronounced with "g"s:
>
> kaz/gaz (goose)
> kec,i/gec,i (goat)
> Ankara/Angara (the Turkish capital)
>
> Some words starting with "t"s are pronounced with "d"s.
>
> Present tense is different:
>
> geliyorum geliyom
> geliyorsun geliyon
> geliyor geliyo
> geliyoruz geliyoh
> geliyorsunuz geliyonuz
> geliyorlar geliyolar
>
> A lot of words are pronounced differently:
>
> git / get (go)
>
> Different uses of words:
>
> "varmak" is used like "gitmek" (to go).
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Uighur English Turkish
> > Yahshimusiz? (How are you?) Iyimisiz ?
>
> Iyimisiniz is usually written as "Iyi misiniz?"
>
> > Isming'iz nime? (What is your name?) Adiniz ne?
>
> "Isminiz ne?" is also acceptible. I some parts of Anatolia such as
> Kayseri,
> Sivas, Nevsehir this would be "adiniz ni?"
>
> > Siz nerdin keldingiz? (Where are you from?) Siz nerden
> > geldiniz?
>
> This would be "where did you come from?". For this "siz nerelisiniz?"
> would be
> better...
>
> > Men Amerikadin keldim. (I am from America.) Ben Amerikadan
> > geldim.
>
> "Ben Amerikaliyim" would be better.
>
> > Bu yerde khanqe uzun turisiz? (Hong long you are going to stay here.) Bu
> > yerde kach uzun kalajaksiniz?
>
> "Burada ne kadar kalacaksiniz?" is the correct phrase.
>
> "kalacak" is pronunced as "kalajak".
>
> > Siz nerde ishleysiz? (Where are you working?) Siz nerde
> > chalishisiz?
>
> "siz nerede c,alI$iyorsunuz?". "c,alI$iyorsunuz" is pronounced as
> "chalyshyyorsunuz".
>
> "c," is actually a "c" with a cedilla, and "$" is actually an "s" with a
> cedilla,
> representing ch and sh sounds respectively.
>
> In Anatolian Turkish this would be "siz nirde c,alI$iyorsunuz?".
>
> > Men mektep okhutkhuchisi. (I work as a school teacher.) Ben okulda
> > oretmenim.
>
> > Men sayahet khilishni bek yahxi korimen. (I like traveling very much.)
> > Ben sayahet etmekni cok severim.
>
> Should be "ben seyahat etmeyi c,ok severim".
>
> > Siz khanche yashta? (How old are you?) Siz kach yashta?
>
> Should be "siz kac, ya$indasInIz?". "kac," is of course "kach".
>
> > Men on-tokhuz yash boldum. (I am 19 years old.) Ben on-toghuz yash
> > oldum.
>
> "Ben ondokuz ya$IndayIm".
>
> > Saatingiz khanche? (What is the time?) Saatiniz kach?
>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:35:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "H. M. Hubey"
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 [email protected] wrote:
>Cokt tesekurler Ahmet hocam:
> Benim Turkcem cok iyi diyil, sunin icin benim cumlelerimde hatalilar
>biraz cok oldi. Ancam ben Turkiye Turcesile Uigur Turkcesini
>selisturmakni istedim....
This word sounds interesting. Is "selistir" the equivalent of
Anatolian "chelishtir" or "to compare"? It looks like we have
three versions
chelish - Anatolian
kelish- Karachay-Balkar
selish- Uyghur
Are there any more words displaying the changes /s/, /ch/, and /k/?
I am looking for these.
Regards,
Mark http://csam.montclair.edu/Faculty/Hubey.html
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." ---Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, 1929.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:28:28 +0100
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Matthias Winkler)
Subject: Re: Uighur language (fwd)
>If you get direct replies, pls forward them to me. I DO speak Istanbul
>Turkish and am also planning a trip to Uygur country next Sept. Thanx,
>RFZ
P=E5l or Paal from Norway stated that Uighur and Turkish are not as simil=
ar
as Sam Sloan had suggested in his mail from 26. Feb. At least not so much
that people can communicate without problems. He compared the situation t=
o
that of Slavonic languages where a Polish speaker can gather the idea of =
a
Russian text, but not the details and subtleties. It should be easy howev=
er
to learn Uighur if you already speak Turkish, he said. Apart from that,
Paal said that older people understand more Turkish than young people.
Also, of course, the writing system is different. Uighurs use a simplifie=
d
version of Arabian script.
Paal recommended the book: "Tuerk DuenyasI Konushma KIlavuzu Turistler
ichin", ed. by Tuerk DuenyasI ArashtIrmalarI VakfI in Istanbul (ISBN:
975-498-061-6).
It might be useful for you as a speaker of Turkish; it seems to be a
phrasebook with a synopsis of several Turcic languages, including Turkish
and Uighur.
Hope this helped.
Matthias
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:47:47 -0700
From: Mamtimyn Aji Sunuodula
Subject: Re: Fwd: Language
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
From: Mamtimyn Aji Sunuodula
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
>
> *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
> From: Dr Michael Dillon
> *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
>
> >
> > *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
> > From: TudiH
> > *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
> >
> > Does anybody know anyone in London who might be able to help this person?
> > Or do you know any Uyghur-English or English-Uyghur text books available?
> > Your help will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Turdi
> >
> > > In a message dated 4/18/98 7:24:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Ewen MacDonald
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Language
> > >
> > > Dear Sir
> > > I would like to learn Uygur and I live in London. Can you help me ?
> > >
> >
>
> Spoken Uyghur by Reinhard F.Hahn (University of Washington Press 1991)is
> the best introduction I have seen so far. Unfortunately there are no
> accompanying tapes, but it is very thorough and has lessons in the
> Persi-Arabic script and romanised forms.
>
> Mike Dillon
School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) library and British
Library in London hold a collection of materials in Uighur, including
textbooks for learning Uighur.
Mamtimyn
--
# Durham University Library Tel:44 191 374 3021 #
# Stockton Road Fax:44 191 374 7481 #
# Durham DH1 3LY E-Mail:[email protected] #
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:08:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: zeidan1
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: uighur language
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
From: "zeidan1"
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Hi, there
My name is Faisal Zeidan I am a Professor at Florida A&M University I am
interested in learn Uighur language but I can not find any grammar or other
publication that could help me. Could any one send me the name of publishers
or names of the books - if any - so I can start my work as soon as possible. I am
very interested in Uighur culture, dances, songs, and religion. I appreciate
any information to this respect.
Regards,
Faisal
作者：Anonymous 在 罕见奇谈 发贴, 来自 http://www.hjclub.org |
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